It’s no secret that America’s infrastructure is failing. Pipes are aging and falling apart. Best case scenario, it’s a costly inconvenience. Worst case scenario, toxic waste is leaking onto streets near homes and into protected waterways. Every case results in costly repairs and bad publicity. Fortunately, there are several installation methods and pipe materials to fix this. On this episode of ISCO Insights, we walk through the decision making process from, “We have a problem,” to “We found a lasting solution.”

We’ll break down the differences in life span and cost, social disruption, environmental impact, and more. It’s a conversation that is more timely than ever.

We’ll cover:

• The current state of underground infrastructure
• Methods and technology for reducing cost and public disruption
• Overcoming high demand and constrained resources

Chelsea

Hi, I’m Chelsea Rabiu. And this is ISCO insights, an educational series on Poly pipe and the Piping Industry. We host Live episodes every month, which are then released as podcasts, please visit ISCO dash pipe.com for more information.

Will Vodak

Right, everybody, welcome back to another ISCO insights. My name is Willie Vodak. I’m a Business Manager here at ISCO industries, Zoom would never go in such a not be complete without some minor zoom issues. So bear with us as we kind of navigate these tricky waters of zoom. It’s taken us several years to figure this out. And there’s, it’s always changing. So we’re doing the best we can here. But really excited to talk about failing sewer force mains is a huge issue that I think is affecting, basically everybody out there on this call. And we have a huge audience today. So we’re really excited that you guys are all going to be joining us. Before we began, I just kind of want to start out with a quick set of instructions. All your video and audio is turned off to enhance quality. For feedback or troubleshooting, please go ahead and use the chat box. If you are also having some zoom issues, you can chat us and we’ll do the best we can to help out. Lastly, I’m really excited about the q&a tab down below if you quit, if you click the q&a tab, you’ll be able to submit questions in real time that we will do our best to answer we’ve got a ton of information today. So please get those questions and answers coming along. And we’ll do our best to answer those in real time. I’m really excited because obviously I could not do this show. By myself. There’s a whole team of people. And I especially need some backup on today’s topic. My first is my right hand man, the Robin to Batman. Mr. Gary Bouvet. Hey, Gary, how you doing today?

Garry

Well, man, it’s great to be back with you today. Although you kind of put me you know, a Mac here in this room all by myself. I don’t get to be side by side with you today. So I feel you know, you relegated me to the corner. But I do like the stars behind my head. So I’m kind of feeling good about that. We

Will Vodak

put you in timeout Gary’s so just you know, you’ll be over there. And we’ll try to do this. But I miss having the right here. It’ll be it’ll be interesting, but we’ll get through it. Thanks so much for being here. Gary. Why should people listen to you?

Garry

I mean, I mean, you know, I’m not sure why they need to listen to me. But I do have 25 years with ISCO been fantastic. Talking, educating people about HDPE, pipe fusion, all the great benefits of polyethylene brings. I’ve been in the market about 30 years in total. So I bring a lot of experience and hopefully, with our great panelists that we’ve got with us today will will be able to educate and shed some more light on some rehabilitation methods that we’re going to talk about. So looking forward to hearing from Jimmy and Shawn today.

Will Vodak

Gary had been in the industry longer than I’ve been alive. Thank you so much. Okay, next up, is a great friend of mine and a super knowledgeable expert in this field. Pleased to bring to the program. Shawn Boris from Colorado. Sean, how you doing today?

Shawn Boris

Well, I’m doing great. Thanks for having me.

Will Vodak

Thanks for being here, man. Why don’t you give us a quick bio, your background in the industry? And why should people listen to you?

Shawn Boris

That’s a good question. But I’ve worked in the industry for over a dozen years, I previously worked at a really large contractor that specialized in trenchless, technology, installing CIP, PVC, HDPE FRP, you name it. So I actually recently started a consulting business, working with owners and engineers, and trying my best to help them save money on trenchless rehabilitation projects, really using any technology that’s available. But I’m excited to talk about forced pain specifically today as well as HDPE.

Will Vodak

We’re going to be leaning on you heavily. So thanks seriously for being here. I know I’ve learned a lot from you over the years and I know the audience is going to learn a ton today as well. And last but certainly not least, all the way from I think Mobile Alabama today, my friend Jimmy Stewart. Jimmy, do you want to join the program? How’re you doing today? Well, I’m

Jimmy Stewart

doing great. Well, and I’m glad to be part of the conversation in this presentation. And yes, today I am in Mobile, Alabama yesterday it was Huntsville. So basically what I bring to the table is like Gary over 25 years of experience in the industry. My primary focus in the last eight to 10 years has been the assessment and inspection of pressurized pipes both for Spain as well as water mains. I am a past NASSCO board member and I am currently the chair of the water environment Federation’s collection systems committee and I work for a company construction product marketing out of Arizona that specializes not only in the inspection, but also rehabilitation of these pressurized pipes. So I’m I look forward to joining this great group of people and trying to educate others that might need some information. I’m so

Will Vodak

happy you’re here. Jimmy seriously, it’s been great getting to know you through this process and learning some things along the way. So, like I said, we’re gonna did take a little, a journey. Let’s let’s tell a little story here today, somehow, some way I got elected to Mayor of ISCO Ville. We all know that wouldn’t really happen in real life. But for some reason, today, I’m the mayor. And I think we’ve got a problem. Our streets look really pretty. Businesses are good. Got some great friends, neighborhoods, restaurants, everything’s great. But boy, I think I’m starting to see a little bit of a problem. Jimmy and Shawn, you guys have seen this probably better than some. Jimmy, do you want to touch a little bit on on what a major issue is today that we’re trying to address? Yeah, and

Jimmy Stewart

basically, it’s, you know, ISCO is a small town. But like all towns throughout this country, there’s there’s issues with our underground infrastructure. It’s aging, it’s failing. It’s not, it’s not accurately maintained. And there’s problems there. And from a forest main perspective, one of the biggest things that’s from an enforcement perspective, are the overflows that take place. And these are typically based on inflow and infiltration, overburden lift stations and pump stations, or inaccurately working force mains. So with that being said, yeah, there’s a lot of problems out there to be that need to be addressed. And I think if you look at the numbers based on the worst studies, 15% of the pipes that are in the ground, the wastewater pipes are forced veins, but they’re also the most under utilized, not utilized, under maintained or inspected component in the wastewater collection system, which all EPA consent orders are based.

Shawn Boris

Yeah, if I may add, a lot of force mains were built relatively long time ago. And they’ve outlived their useful life. So a lot of those materials that they were originally built with, are needing to be either repaired or replaced. So it’s a essentially a ticking time bomb. And there’s really a few ways to go about doing that.

Garry

Yeah, and I think we’ve we’ve lost some of the, the feed here from our from our other studio, Sean and Jimmy. So we’ll continue on with this conversation. But, you know, why do you think, you know, the systems have gotten to where they are, I mean, you’ve read all the reports from all the different, you know, publications, I mean, infrastructures A D, it’s an F in a lot of places. Why do you think we’ve gotten to that point?

Jimmy Stewart

I’ll start by addressing the simple fact that our infrastructure is aging, your material types have changed. So what was installed 40 5060 years ago, might not have been the best suited product, that it was the best suited product at the time. But as time has gone on these assets they have aged, we found a lot more products out there that were more effectively and efficiently for our infrastructure. So as these pipes are aging, there’s a cost associated with not only inspecting, but rehabilitating, as well as the longevity of the pipes. So money is a big ticket item to have to deal with, you know, how are you going to spend your money to best improve your assets. And that’s one of the things that I see is where the town like is Scoville that doesn’t have a really large population might not have the revenue to address all the problems. We started getting into bigger cities, obviously, they’ve got bigger problems, and the dollars are bigger. So I think overall, there needs to be a holistic approach taken to identify and prioritize, you know, where are your problems and what needs to be addressed first, to minimize the risks that you have in dealing with your pressure pipes.

Will Vodak

Alright, guys, can you hear me? Can you hear me out there? Yeah, you’re all you’re all back. We’ll fantastic I’m going to ask a poll question. While our audience is here. I really would like to get to know what our audience is thinking of this issue. Do you currently have a failing sewer force man project or one that you think might be coming up? Something that might require some attention? I’ve gotten a couple of always is which is always a good sign. And I suspect you know, about 30% of our audience right now. Does Let’s have a failing force man issue that they’re faced with, I suspect this number is only going to increase as we, as we let this poll continue on. But guys, it sounds like we’ve got a lot of people that are facing some similar questions here. So, Jimmy, you’re, your company specializes in kind of assessments, you see a lot of these early warning signs, what are some that we should be looking out for? I suspect these are a lot of familiar images to a lot of people out there and in the audience.

Jimmy Stewart

And certainly the early warning signs, it probably starts with how well is the pump station actually working is operating as designed. If not, you need to start looking at it and figured out one you have the capacity or your pump still working correctly. And if the pump station is not working as designed, a lot of times engineering firms start looking at where we’re going to rehab the pump station, but they don’t look at is outside of the fence, or the force main is, is this pipeline that was installed sometimes 60 years ago, going to be able to withstand the new pumps and the new volume and the new capacity that they’re going to push through this pipe. So when you start looking at early warning signs, you’ve got to look at operating and transient pressures. Are there gases present which are primarily a deterioration factor for ferrous pipes? Are the problems in defects? Do you have corrosion issues? Is it tuberculosis debris, and all of that is basically from the inside of the pipe. Looking out when you started looking at the external conditions. On the metallic pipe, you’ve got stray currents, corrosive stalls, and third party damage where, you know, somebody didn’t call 811. And they dug up a force main and corrosive soils will eat away at just about anything out there, the material type, but more so on a ferrous pipe, stray currents, I’ll give you a perfect real world example. There was a 30 inch ductile iron pipe that was running through the state of Georgia’s second largest water producer in the state. And they had straight currents coming off a gas line, it jumped on and off of a cast iron ductile iron pipe pipe lasted the first one they installed by us right at 10 years. And 10 years later, 11 years later, the same pipe failed again. And it was due to stray Correct. Case in point there. My recommendation when I found the stray currents was replaced that entire 600 some odd feet was something that was not conductive to eliminate the strike or an issue that was causing the problem.

Will Vodak

Jimmy we’ve got these warning signs, but all of these can lead to what Shawn has seen in the past, we get called on you know, 430 on a Friday night or, or maybe New Year’s Eve as you’re sitting down Christmas Eve as you’re sitting down with a family. This seems to happen at not the best time. Shawn, you’ve seen a couple of these catastrophic system failures. Jimmy, you want to talk a little bit about how it gets to this point? And what can be done from here?

Jimmy Stewart

Oh, yeah, I’ll be glad to hear the story as the catastrophic system failures. And probably the root cause of that problem is that most utilities really don’t focus on what is the condition of these pipes, even though they do have a very high consequence of failure. But once they do fail, you’ve got a lack of service to customers, you’ve probably got some employees, they’re going to have to be working either late at night or through the weekend, even on holidays, which I’m familiar with one that happened on Christmas Eve. The cost associated with it is typically TEDx on maintenance, repair, or unplanned repair versus a catastrophic failure. You’ve got public relations to deal with, because there’s a triple bottom line effect here where it can be the economic effect. The environmental effects, public relations effect to different customers out there. cleaning up the mess, if it gets into a waterway, you’ve got to test the waters for a period of time until it’s within the EPA guidelines. And probably one of the biggest challenges is that if there’s no redundancy, setting up a bypass to take care of a failed force main, there’s no telling how many roadways, how many yards you’re going to have to cross to set up a bypass. It’s an extremely challenging requirements to enable somebody to bypass a forced paint that is failed. That’s going to take three to five days or sometimes a month to get repaired.

Will Vodak

A lot otherwise, Shawn puts it. Shawn, do you have anything to add here? You say this kind of takes it up from just a problem of one to about a problem of 10. Everything is turned up to the spinal tap analogy of 11 or 12. Do you have anything else to add on that?

Shawn Boris

You know, I think actually, your chances of getting reelected as mayor would significantly diminish in the event that you had a forced main failure in the in a nice neighborhood.

Will Vodak

Well, then, you know, we have to do something about this, because this is something I must be as mayor Jimmy is out for the day, I guess I’m in somehow

Garry

see the recount, I’m gonna have to.

Will Vodak

Okay, so now I’m super worried about this. This is, you know, this is something that is kind of hard to really pick up. But I think Jimmy Stewart, we need to start with maybe a conditions assessment, figure out what’s really going on here, and then analyze the risk versus the likelihood of that risk happen.

Jimmy Stewart

Okay, so I’m going to kind of put this into a, an easy to understand approach, looking at condition assessment, or inspecting these force mains typically. And I would say that the majority of the engineering firms across the world, look at it from a risk based approach, whether it’s a consequence of failure, or a likelihood of failure. Consultants specialize in this, what they’re all looking for, is good data, to drive the process of what are we going to do next? So when you start looking at a risk based analysis, take into consideration the consequences of failure. For instance, Mayor, if a force main broke in your front yard, that would probably have a high consequence of failure, because you’re gonna want it fixed. But what about the schools? What about the waterways? What about the hospitals, if these pipes fail, and there’s a high consequence of failure, that’s typically much more higher score and prioritization than if you just have one, that’s the end of a cul de sac or down to the field, that might have a high likelihood. But the consequence is not near as as bad as the likelihood. So that’s why when you look at the likelihood and consequence of failure, consequence is typically scored much higher than the likelihood.

Garry

And Jimmy, I’ve got a question for you the analysis, the analysis, should that be done? I mean, it seems like we probably as a whole react to things that happen. Before we do it, right. Are you talking about more of a proactive approach on some of this assessment?

Jimmy Stewart

Absolutely. This is a proactive approach. And if you look at the majority of utilities out there, their mentality is run into failure. But the truth of the matter is, if you go in upfront and start looking at it, being proactive in managing your force, mains pressure pipes, even your gravity sewers, you’re going to be able to stay ahead of the game, save money, and basically, let your asset management program thrive, your capital improvement program, which in essence, is going to save you money, because you’re increasing the value of your assets. So to answer your question, yeah, this needs to be a proactive approach, and understand what’s really going on within these pipes and addressing problems before they ultimately feel.

Will Vodak

Shawn, you mentioned to me in the in the creation of this, that you’ve rehabilitated miles and miles and miles of pretty good pipe, but maybe that didn’t need to be rehabilitated. I think our audience would be surprised to hear me say that, you know, but it’s tempting to skip this assessment process to try to save some cost, but you think it might be able to really save them a lot of money?

Shawn Boris

Absolutely, for the reason that you just mentioned, perhaps if you do an assessment, maybe you could get by with a different type of rehabilitation solution. For instance, you can maybe do an isolated repair versus repairing an extensive or rehabilitating a whole system. Another thing that I’ve noticed too, in terms of if you are going to rehabilitate a pipeline, by not doing an assessment, you’re essentially passing risks on to the contractor. If I were a contractor bidding on a project, I want to know as much information as I can about that project. And if I don’t know as much information, I’m going to actually increased my price because I’m inheriting more risk. That being said to you learnt a lot of valuable information from doing an assessment. Not just if there’s good piping The bad pipe, but also what sort of lining solution maybe you should use. I’ve run into projects where we didn’t have the information because it’s sometimes really challenging to shut down a force pay. But it’s possible maybe that you’ve already gone to design gone to procurement. And finally, you’re opening up that Forsman, and maybe you went down the wrong path, and you’re using the wrong rehabilitation solution. So I always encourage customers and clients to do as much due diligence, like what Jimmy was saying, and really get a good grasp of what you have underneath the ground.

Will Vodak

Jimmy, the next step in this is really putting together a data driven approach of modeling this system. This is something that I think you highly encourage and do quite a bit.

Jimmy Stewart

Yeah, absolutely. And what I look at, and this is something that I would say that most engineering firms, engineering firms, what they want to do is the model the force main, I’m not gonna say it’s a challenge to model force veins, because all engineers love challenges. So there are things that they need to consider when they’re modeling the force veins, basically pressures, volumes, gas pockets ARB operation, some of the things that they can find, when they do this are different areas of consideration where there could be different types of degradation taking place, due to inoperable ARV air pockets, error zones, these are things that primarily are going to take place in a ferrous pipe. So with that being said, there’s a there’s a lot of things you can find when modeling. And there’s a lot of things that you cannot find when modeling. And to hit on that just a little bit more. The biggest thing that you cannot find are the exact locations of the problems that you have in that pipeline, because obviously, it’s underground, it might be even sub aqueous underwater, or it might be a very hard area to reach. So modeling it is difficult, as built drawings aren’t necessarily always accurate, where they really verified when installation took place that they were installed as they were designed. This can always cause I would guess, for lack of a better term elevation changes, curves, things that typically should be checked for. But, you know, in a perfect world design looks great. But from design to installation, sometimes everything is just perfectly installed as it was designed.

Will Vodak

Jimmy, this is a really good segue and the Czar’s got a great question here. And I hope I’m pronouncing that name correctly, which is kind of the physical inspection element to this. Obviously, we can model all day long, get data, run some calculations, but eventually you’re going to have to, as you’ve put it, look outside the fence. How do you recommend going about this as Nizar says, what is involved in conditions assessment in a physical sense that will provide the data to do the analysis? It’s always a challenge for the municipality as they rely on info from their in house resources, versus getting an end to independent proactive approach.

Jimmy Stewart

Okay, and I’ll do my best stage for that question. I think that I understand it, when you start looking at your in house resources, there are a tremendous asset to your utility. So their in house assets, basically, you’re going to be verifying that the AR v’s are working correctly, you’re going to be looking at the low rates, the pump, down times the operation of the pumps, how much current are they holding when they run. And if you look at the, if you look at Palm, when you start that pump up, it’s basically supposed to run so many gallons per minute, and a certain pressure in your pipe, if you don’t have a good operating the good operating a RVs. And if you don’t have areas where you know that there’s gas pockets that are forming, you’re gonna see a tremendous spike in the pressure. That pressure that is generated while you’re looking at just your pump curves is an area where you’re going to build up head pressure that could actually exceed the failure mode of that pipe. So the second part of the question was about using external resources, is that correct? That’s correct. So when you start looking at it, I would say generate a model that’s basically you know, based on information that you know, and then I would use a lower resolution in line tool to validate the model, either in Line tool, an inline inspection tool, or even an external tool to go into some of these areas, whether it’s a UT gauge and electromagnetic gauge for looking at the pulse eddy currents to look at wall thickness. And there’s another tool out there called the pipe scanner, they can look at all material types, but verify the information that you have and use that information to update your model. It’s not that expensive. Once your model is updated, you can make a decision well do I need to use an inline tool that’s a low resolution and a low cost? Or do I really need to go ahead and do an internal inspection with a high resolution tool that will identify all the different components of any material type that can tell you how much wall last areas angular displacement, mad joints, anything that you might be looking for, inside of a pipe, both ferrous and non ferrous to understand what the true condition is, once you’ve identified what that condition is, and how much water loss there is, you can look at the material type the vintage, and basically determine the degradation rate, which will help you plan a replacement. And as we’ve mentioned before, a planned replacement or a planned rehabilitation is 10 times cheaper than that of a failure that takes place that’s not planned, especially when it’s on a holiday.

Will Vodak

Especially when it’s holiday. You’re talking about vintages and trying to you know, reduce failures. Gary, what’s your vintage 1919 12? Is there a was there a failure? There?

Garry

was a failure a long time ago? Will,

Will Vodak

I’m just giving you a hard time.

Garry

All right.

Will Vodak

Jimmy, you were talking about some of these inline tools? We’ve got some some specific tools to kind of help model some of the conditions of that pipe. Do you want to maybe elaborate a little bit on this? Well,

Jimmy Stewart

I mean, the visual tool is basically you’re looking at the pipe, if you’re able to see the pipe because it’s above ground. That’s great. A lot of these are in easements use an example not too long ago, where they were out there Bucha already in the easement and the tractor fell through into the into the fourth vein because the pipe was basically completely worn out. But looking at your ARV looking at your pipes, visually is a tremendous help with the acoustic technologies that is, is typically used internally, that will basically identify air pockets, debris levels, as well as any leaks as long as there’s a 15 PSI pressure differential. But the most important thing to look at there is are there areas where air pockets are forming, which is where degradation will start taking place in Ferris pipes, ultrasonic, external tool, an internal tool. So up on the top right picture there, you can see, they’re using a pulsating current tool there, which again, looks through the entire pipe. And it’s a real time delivery tool. So you’ll be able to look at the results immediately. You won’t get your heap after after the fact. But it gives you actionable data, well, that’s immediately. The second tool you have there is a tool that is an acoustic tool, it’s it’s pretty much buoyant. So if there is water flowing through the force main, it’s going to make the fight. The tool below uses both the electromagnetics as well as the electric, electromagnetic as well as the ultrasonic. And that tool can be used for any material type just based on the physics behind the tools and the technologies deployed. So yeah, these are the right tools for the job in order to identify any problem within a pie. And that’s once you have that information that can be used for understanding the value of the asset, as well as when do you plan to actually do something with it to keep it from failing?

Will Vodak

Jimmy, thanks for talking us through this assessment process. I think it’s given me enough information to make a decision that we probably have some of this occurring. I’ve got the data somewhere. But really now what are we going to do? This is where I’m going to bring in my buddy Sean. Well, also Jimmy, I want you to also touch on kind of what what decisions which avenues we could go down. Now that we’ve got this data, I suppose I could just do nothing. Or we could, you know, try to maybe consider some other options here.

Jimmy Stewart

And I’ll start off and let Shawn you close up this side of it. Do nothing is the approach that A lot of people take, but doing nothing, ultimately is going to end up in a catastrophic failure, where you have a pipe that fails at a time or in a location that is not good for, for you, Mayor, you don’t want your citizens calling you or telling you, hey, are our force main break, broke, and we’ve got sewage all over the street and running into the creek. So when you’re proactively approaching, managing force mains, if you look at doing your first inspections, and understanding what the condition is, you can then identify the frequency of inspection and determine the degradation rate and remaining useful life of the pipe. So that’s all the physics behind. And I’m when I say this, I’m referencing primarily ferrous pipe, because that’s where you’re starting to use lose wall thicknesses. The thinner the wall, the less strength it has, the more you’re susceptible to surge pressures, and things of that nature. Where would I start? I would start with prioritization, understanding your system, finding out if you have redundancy, and are you able to bypass, you know, within your system, in order to get around the not having the second way to, I guess, move this flow to the treatment fire. When you start talking about replace rehabilitate. Shawn, this is right down both you’re in my alley. But it’s a decision that has to be made based on the overall condition of the pipe. So if you’ve got a small piece that’s not in that bad of shape, you don’t want to replace good pipe. But at the same time, if you’ve got a big long pipe that’s got a lot of problems in it. Yeah, in the long run, you’re probably better off completely replacing or rehabilitating that pipe. So Shawn, if you want to speak a little bit on replacing rehabilitate, and what you’re looking at? That would be great.

Shawn Boris

Thanks, Jimmy. Yeah, there’s actually a lot of factors involved in which we’ll talk about in the next slide. But also, another option is to replace certain select areas or rehabilitate slip areas. So you don’t necessarily have to do to replace or rehabilitate, you can do a hybrid solution there as well, depending upon access, as well as next few factors. So in terms of the factors that are discussed, really, a few items that come to mind are risk. Based on experience. I feel like rehabilitating force pants are incredibly risky. I’ve done a lot of work in the oil patch. I’ve also done a lot of water lines, and typically force mains are more the challenging than those other ones for a few different reasons. Typically, location. Force mains are usually in a tough, inaccessible part because nobody wants a force being in their backyard, it’s always going this way in that to avoid certain locations. That being said, again, if if we do the proper assessment, maybe you can mitigate that risk. And in which case, rehabilitating is a better viable option. That being said, you know, cost. It really depends on exactly what you’re up against and what you’re trying to achieve. Whether you’re rehabilitating just a section of the pipe, whether you have to go miles miles, and you can amortize, for instance, immobilization and setup cost, there’s really no easy answer to that question. Again, I think it takes a real understanding of what exactly the problem is, and then moving forward in terms of rehabilitating replacement access. Obviously, if you’re going to do an open cut replacement, that’s going to take a lot of access. Whereas if you’re rehabilitating with a trenchless technology, for example, you’re only using a select few areas to access the inside of the pipe. It’s not completely trenchless. But that being said, it’s a significant reduction in amount of excavation work that’s adding to take place. Also, in terms of permitting. A lot of times if you’re rehabilitating a pipeline, you don’t necessarily need to go through the same amount of lead work that you would if you are actually having to do a replacement. schedule wise. Typically what I’ve seen is rehabilitation is quicker than replacement bypass depending upon what’s happening. And with force mains. Typically, there’s a lot of flow, you’re probably going to have to construct a temporary bypass depending upon flow requirements. Maybe you can trust the sewage from a pump station to a treatment plant or what have you. But typically bypass does take a lot of time to get set up tests, and then energized prior to actually doing the replacement flow outcomes. Again, this depends on exactly when the pipeline was originally constructed, if it’s operating at full efficiency if it needs to be upsized. That being said, they’re both replacement and rehabilitation options in the event that you do need to rehabilitate it, you can certainly pipe burst of force main and upsize that lifespan. It’s interesting, I’ve seen a lot of customers that really love ferrous materials, and they’ll only use a rehabilitation solution in areas that can’t be excavated. But I’ve seen municipalities specify using ductile iron even though the lifespan isn’t necessarily as long as some other materials. And then also importantly, is the social disruption. One nice part about trenchless technology is that you can really minimize what areas you’re going to impact, whether it’s residences or closing businesses, whereas with replacement really, there, it’s a challenging location. And sometimes there’s there’s certainly going to be impacts. And typically, those impacts are longer than if you were to do a trenchless solution.

Will Vodak

John, that’s a great deep dive, I want to add, we got a unique opportunity to ask the audience what their biggest disruption is, or their biggest obstacle when rehabilitating a sewer project, like the audience suggests, for the fun of it, say what your biggest challenge is? Is it risk cost? Or is it access maybe permitting, schedule bypass, the list goes on and then you know, it’s gross, there’s always that. So if that is something you’re concerned about, I’m just curious right now, it’s mainly a cost thing. We’re looking at about 40, hovering around 42%. Of those saying cost is the biggest one. Bypass is next, John, as you mentioned, a big big obstacle. And what else, access is another one that’s really starting to creep up there. So thanks so much for sharing some of that. John, we’re going to touch briefly on this because we got a lot of HDPE goods to cover. There’s a lot of rehabilitation methods out there, but name a few just kind of this slide and, and what some of the options are available.

Shawn Boris

CIPP is a phenomenal material actually at rehabilitating force mains. That being said, every technology has its strengths and weakness. CIP is typically more expensive than the other technologies listed on this chart. That being said, it is able to go through minor fittings and bends up to like a 45 degree elbow. Also PVC is tried and true if you were to do a spot repair. FRP is a phenomenal product. And there’s also other specialty solutions, whether it’s semi structural, or simply just a liner, for instance, like constructor cement mortar line, but you could also go with a thin layer of HDPE, or a thin layer of CIP, and a benefit to that as you’re using this material, less material and reducing costs. That being said, HDPE is really a phenomenal material at rehabilitating force mains, and we can talk about it in in future slides. It can be installed in a variety of different ways. It’s incredibly, incredibly durable, very cost effective, easy to modify. So really, these are the best tried and true methods that I’ve come across.

Will Vodak

So I’ve made an executive decision here that we’re going to go ahead and we are going to rehabilitate some of our systems. Gary, buckle up, man, we got a lot to cover of HDPE and you’re my guy for this. So before you start, Shawn wants you to tell me a little bit about you think HDPE in many cases, whether it’s rehabilitation, sometimes repair especially new construction. HDPE is the material of choice for rehabilitating sewer forcement.

Shawn Boris

Absolutely. Just for some of the reasons that I started to describe just a minute ago. It’s really easy to install. It’s incredibly durable, depending upon the the solution that you’re using 50 to 100 year lifespan, so it’s going to outlive me. And really, once you actually install the system, do all the QA QC and it passes hydro chests. It’s a system that you can basically forget about it’s that good and so many benefits such as the different ways that it can be installed. It can meet to either iron pipe size ductile iron pipe size, it’s easy to make custom fittings that fit specific projects. Also, again, it’s pretty inexpensive relative to some of the other solutions. You can slip line it, you can burst it, you can use it on new construction and drop it in open trenches. So it’s so flexible, and that’s one of the best parts about it. This

Will Vodak

is coming from someone who’s installed a bunch of it, Gary, yeah. And you’re not paying me to say that, what’s that?

Shawn Boris

You’re not paying me to say that? It’s not honest. Let’s

Will Vodak

be very clear. I’m not paying to say that. So I, I appreciate that. Here. You’re the HDP expert here. HDPE has come a long way. Right? It’s, it’s, you know, not just a flip phone. Now. It’s, it’s the iPhone 1213, whatever number we’re on, he thought about 4710 Real quickly, and how great it is,

Garry

right? I mean, you’re right, we’ll HDPE has evolved over time, it’s continued to improve, you know, the polymer structure, the durability, the mechanical strength, all those things have continued to evolve as manufacturers of the resin and the pipe itself, you know, creating a better better product and constant improvements. And you know, and that’s where we’re at today, you’ve got a pipe, that’s you got 100 year design life to it, that has tremendous slow crack growth resistance, as well as chlorine resistance. It’s had all the chemical benefits. Jimmy mentioned, you know, a lot of ferrous pipes, the corrosion that tuberculate And all those things are gone away with HDPE.

Will Vodak

And another main element that we’d like to preach so much is using it is crazy to me to think that in this system, you can use other materials and from day one, they will have an allowable leakage rate, that is simply preposterous when you’ve got a material that is fusible monolithic lead free, Gary, what is fusion? And why does it work? So well?

Garry

Yeah, fusion is you know, the definition joining two into one and that’s exactly what we do, we take two pieces of pipe, fuse it together using heat and pressure and create one continuous monolithic system. So if you fuse 1000 foot of pipe together will you basically have 1000 foot piece of pipe functioning is one all the laterals, connections, all of those can be fused, you have a full and integrated system that is, you know, leak free corrosion resistant.

Will Vodak

area, what’s HDPE’s leakage rate allowance on day one,

Garry

that would be zero will we don’t have an allowable leakage rate. What about on a 5050 years, I guess it’s it’s still going to be zero unless you find that backhoe operator who tries to be a pipe locator for the day and ramps right into it.

Will Vodak

So we’re going to we cover fusion a lot of times if you’re interested in learning more about fusion reach out to your local ISCO representative. Another reason this is so suited towards sewer force mains is the corrosion resistance. Shawn, you’ve seen some pretty nasty force mains? Have you ever seen anything filled up out inside of HDPE?

Shawn Boris

Not inside of force me. And I’ve certainly seen build up in mining applications where there’s a slurry, but even then it’s pretty minimal compared to other types of lining solutions or materials. That being said, You’re not going to see any scale or tuberculate can adhere to HDPE. Really a force main application is so benign, that yeah, I would recommend checking it every 10 years or so forth. But really it’s it’s a set it and forget it solution that we

Will Vodak

see HDPE and really, really toxic chemical situations. So I mean, it can handle the full range of kind of corrosion resistance. So flow is a big one for everyone. Gary, I can’t I’m constantly hearing okay, I’ve lost some ID because HDPE is an OD controlled pipe material, does that mean that I need to upsize HDPE in every single application

Garry

that necessarily will you know, the C factor for polyethylene is outstanding. It’s 150. C factor and that’s day one or day, 100 years from now, it’s still going to be a C factor of 150. So where you know some of the other materials maybe starts at 141 30 and deteriorates under 100. As you get the tuberculate to build up, particularly with any of the metal metal pipes. It’s just an inherent feature characteristic of metal pipes. You don’t get that with polyethylene. You look at those pictures that you have there will be polyethylene pipe at the top there, that’s a pipe that’s 32 years old, that pipe is older than you will. And you can see no build up on the inside of that. whatsoever.

Will Vodak

You know, this, this picture down here cracks me up a little bit, we talked about ID constriction, that 10 inch competing material is not going to be 10 inch for very long. So anyways,

Jimmy Stewart

go ahead, Jimmy. Yeah, I wanted to just if you go back to the previous slide, I want to interject something that I’ve found from an inspection perspective, when you start looking at see factors in different material types, especially whether it’s a line pipe, whether it’s double, or cast, or C man, you’ve got multiple layers there. And as those layers start corroding or D laminating, that’s gonna significantly increase friction, were in a HCP, or pipe that doesn’t have multiple layers, that C factor is pretty much going to stay consistent throughout. So from the long term, you’re not going to lose a C factor on an HTP IP pipe, like you would on a C bet line or a any other type of line pipe, or the ductile cast, or C man. That’s something that’s very important. It’s one of the things of the inspection process that we look for. And something that engineers have to calculate is that loss of C factor to determine what they’re going to do with the pipes?

Will Vodak

Jimmy, great point. Thanks for sharing that. We got to move on quickly, because I want to leave room for the installation rehabilitation methods. HDPE, because it’s fused, monolithic system, very durable, impact resistant. In fact, it is seismically resistant as well. Earthquakes are shifting plates moving around HDPE can handle it all it can even be slows. And I’ve made that word up flat squeezed flat, I guess some other people will say, the abrasion resistance. As Sean mentioned, it’s used a lot in mining, it’s used a lot and slurries, we typically expect it to last about four times as long versus competing materials, just because it is resistant to where and temperature range, you know, we’ve got a temp range of hot Texas summers all the way up to the Yukon, where you get, you know, it’s never above five degrees. So you know, we’ve got this range of temperatures. HDPE can freeze without issues, we’re really have the ability to operate in any sort of climate, I know we’ve got a couple 100 people on this call, typically we get people from all over the world, believe it or not HDPE, we can honestly say is suited for each one of the environments that you’re in. And Gary, I want you to touch a little bit on flexibility. This is such an important part for some of this install, because you’ve got such ease of being able to maneuver this in really difficult applications, right,

Garry

it lends itself very well the flexibility of HDPE proximately 25 times the outside diameter, that’s the bend radius of that pipe, that you’re not going to risk damaging in any way. And that’s a pretty tight radius when you think about it well and being able to bend that. I mean, look at this. This is a 36 inch water transfer line. Down in Guatemala actually following the mountain side, that is just few sections of pipe bent around the contours of the mountains, no fittings, No elbows, that can really simplify the installation. And we’re going to talk more about, you know, some of these, you know, entry pit and exit pits, and how tight you can make those and how small you can make those because of the flexibility of polyethylene.

Will Vodak

We’ve also got a tremendous surge allowance built in to HDPE. Sean, you’d like to mention that the safety factor is already built in of two times you’ve got this this burst strength with occasional surge allowance, up to two times the operating pressure or the operating pressure allowance for that pipe. For instance, Dr. 11 rated at 200 psi has occasional bursts rank built into the pipe for 400 psi here and and I get those numbers right I get I’m still learning this.

Garry

Yeah, you got those. I mean, you’re you’re making progress well all the time, but you’re gonna need a lot more years with me to get up get up to speed but you’ve got that right. Recurring surges and occasional surges. Polyethylene already has that and we’re not derating because of a surge. We don’t design piping systems because of surge. It’s all inherently built into the product.

Will Vodak

So on you had a good characterization about this is why plan for an additional safety factor. If you’ve I mean, that’s just adding cost to projects, isn’t it?

Shawn Boris

Absolutely. Again, the safety factor of HDPE is 2x. And a lot of times I’ve met usually run across specifications where a force means operating at 30 to 40 psi. But the test pressure actually has to be 150 psi, in which case all you’re doing is throwing extra material in the system, you’re reducing the cross sectional area. And most importantly, you’re really just throwing away money by adding that extra material unnecessarily.

Will Vodak

Fantastic analysis there, we’ve also got a bunch of size ranges for HDPE. In fact, we have too many options for you. You want it with a purple stripe, do you want it with a green stripe, blue stripe, we basically have HDPE, all the way up through it’s even greater than 88 inch, it’s up to around 120 inch, I believe, Gary?

Garry

Yeah. and Europe, the largest in North America, solid wall pipe that’s been installed and produced has been 88 inch. But over in Europe, there’s pipe well over two and a half to three meters.

Will Vodak

Variety of pressure ratings, as well as a dimension ratio system. dimension ratio system allows kind of a class by class up size. So if it’s Dr. 11 200 psi and four inch all the way up through 48 inch. So it’s pretty great to be able to carry that on. So like any good city council board meeting, we’re running a little long on this thing. But we have an opportunity to now talk about some different creative ways to get this HDPE in the system, I’m putting the foot down saying we’re going with polyethylene here, Gary, you’ve sold me. And Shawn, I think you have a couple of different ways to maybe rehabilitate some forcement I think we should start off with why go trench less, not just completely no trench, but less trench with HDPE.

Shawn Boris

Yeah, the benefit to that really is you can go long distances without actually having to do much excavation. And the benefit to that will is that way your residences are going or people who are going to work and traveling throughout the streets every day aren’t going to need to be diverted by traffic disruptions or what have you. So trenchless is a proven system. And there’s also a bunch of different methods to actually install HDPE pipe that’s both quick and effective and efficient and also cost effective. So really, we can talk about a few things here. Obviously, you can install HDPE and open cut applications, but also, what we’ll discuss in a next couple of slides, you can install HDPE with horizontal directional drilling, and go several several 1000 feet. And it’s pretty remarkable that you can actually guide that pipe within inches of where you actually need it. And one benefit to HDPE is how flexible it is that you can reduce the size of the insertion pits, but also go around other intersecting utilities. In terms of rehabilitation, the pipe bursting also has been around for a long, long time. And a benefit to that is you can even upsize the pipe from the original hose pipe to the actual new HDPE. And then we’ll also discuss both conventional slip lining which is installing up a small piece of pipe inside a larger one or compressed fit HDPE lining, which is essentially installing a slightly oversized pipe and pulling it inside and completing the pool and then it grows back and locks into place. So HDPE is almost a magical material with how flexible and how diverse that it can be installed.

Will Vodak

John, again, I’m not paying you to say that so we totally agree. last poll question here does HDPE fit into your rehabilitation plans in the future before we take a deeper dive into some of these topics, interested to know if everybody is going to be using HDPE into your rehabilitation plans in the future? Not kidding here. Everyone a staggering 92% of individuals are going to be using HDPE for their rehabilitation plans in the future. That’s great to hear. Now let’s dive a little deeper so that 92% can really get to know what the options are. And we’re going to have to breeze through this but we are going to run long today. I apologize. HDD is the gateway drug of trenchless applications for HDPE using HDPE. Essentially, Gary, do you want to run through this animation is a great way to get around obstructions, rivers, waterways,

Garry

busy road crossings. Yeah, I mean this is where HDPE really get to get it started. A lot of people could have To get around these obstructions and you know, ACP was the pipe of choice, but you’ve got a drill rig on one side of the obstruction, you’ve got an entry pit. As you get shooting the rods through with a cutter head cuts about a two, two and a half inch hole in the soil underneath the obstruction. And it’s guided the entire way know exactly where they need to go comes out the other side, remove the cutter head. Now in this simplified animation, we simply attach the pipe, pull it back through the annular space. But more commonly, what typically happens will is there is a series of back rooms that open up that hole large enough to accommodate the size of pipe that’s coming in there that may be 234 passes necessary to get the proper hole dimension, but very effective. I mean the largest directional drill job, I think in the North America was a 54 inch job down in Miami a couple of years ago, they pulled about 5000 foot a 54 inch pipe, Downtown Miami I think that picture is my one of my fun ones down air and a great city Miami, you can see the pipe strung out and they directionally drilled all of that pipe. Right closely.

Will Vodak

You can see Gary IN HIS Lamborghini driving down there waving to the bait. Man, it’s

Garry

being pit bull, dude. I mean, we’re having we’re having a ball down there.

Will Vodak

So Shawn, this this is, you know, it can be used for rehabilitation. More typically, this is for new builds enforcement. But this is a great project here. Again, in Florida, this is 30,000 feet of HDPE or I’m sorry, 30 inch HDPE that was fast tracked in a very, very difficult situation. City of Fort Lauderdale was was having a 30 inch force man that had failed and they chose HDPE. And really fast track this progress 22,000 lineal feet, in just four phases and nine months. Shawn, where else do you see HDD fitting into the rehabilitation plans for force bands in the future?

Shawn Boris

Oh, let’s move on to pipe bursting. Actually, I think that would be a good topic to discuss.

Will Vodak

I think that’s a great topic. So we’ve got pipe bursting. So I want you to take the reins here on pipe bursting.

Shawn Boris

Sure. So pipe bursting is essentially pulling HDPE through an existing pipe and essentially just using that pipe as a sacrificial conduit. And in the process, you’re either using a size on size or upsizing. That hook that material, the pipe. And you can do that through a variety of ways. You can use a static head or a pneumatic head. And also it’s it’s very quick, you can do 1000 to 1500 foot shots every day, that technology and the equipment is readily available through Hammerhead technologies or TT technologies. And not only that, but it’s you’re able to move that equipment from insertion pits insertion pits, so it’s really a very cost effective solution to rehabilitating old force mates.

Will Vodak

So Gary, we’ve got a couple of different ways to use pipe bursting. There’s a pneumatic system and a static system. The pneumatic uses air static uses kind of a rig, do you want to explain the process here a little bit in greater detail. I

Garry

mean, real, real simplified, you know, well, this this is a pneumatic animation that we’ve got here. So you know with inside that that head is a pneumatic head that’s going to basically hammer so to speak vibrate using the air compressor feeding that and it’s going to break up this is for fracture, double pipe things like cast iron, concrete, Clay, those things are gonna break into pieces, right? Those pieces get broken and pushed into the soil and displaced and brings in the HDPE pipe fill in the same annular space that was there with the old pipe. And as Sean said it can upside it’s very common to upsize about 25% without much effort. I’ve seen totally up you know 50 50% 100% increases on pipe bursting, very specific jobs, the soils, burial depths, all those factors come into play when determining what kind of upsize can be done.

Will Vodak

I love the fact that you can upsize, Gary. We’ve got a couple of videos on this next page with some examples. You want to kind of walk through some of these. Yeah,

Garry

this is the cast iron pipe. You can see they’ve got the open pit. You can see that head coming through. You would hear a hammer or vibration continually like a jackhammer, while that thing’s going through, but it just breaks up those and pushes that pipe in and then the HDPE pipe is attached right behind that Hammerhead

Will Vodak

and this is for fracture Bolgheri static would be for non fracture walls, correct, right?

Garry

Static things like this one here. Well, this is a static poll. So you’re using Lynch and force, essentially to come through this is ductile iron. That’s not a fracture bro pipe. But you can see a series of cutter wheels on the end of that head, that are going to slice through that pipe before the the actual hammer comes through and breaks it up. This was a repair clamp that was on on a piece of pipe that the wheels cut through and pushed out and then allowed for the tool to come through. So again, depending on the the pipe material that you’re going through, you’ve got different options for the pipe bursting.

Will Vodak

Shawn sunlight, a lot might be familiar with using pipe bursting on maybe gravity systems, sanitary sewer lines, it can be used in force main applications, correct?

Shawn Boris

Correct. Yeah. That being said, Really, you’re looking for the right layout. Really, you want to have sections that are 567 100 feet that are relatively straight? This technology really does dictate or mandate that you’re pulling through straight pipe, and not any kick joints or fittings? Yeah.

Will Vodak

Shawn, we’re gonna move on to slip lining here next. This is a pretty cool one. And I’m sure a lot have have kind of seen this in the past. Gary, do you want to go through the animation just real quick, it’s pretty, pretty straightforward. Even someone like me could probably figuring this out.

Garry

Pretty straightforward. Well, this is a this is a been done for many, many years well, but you know, slip lining, you open up you know, access pit, you can pull the HDPE pipe in using some type of winch apparatus. You know, a lot of these typically go on sewer gravity lines, man hold a manhole, which is in that five to 600 foot range, that is Shawn mentioned that a pull method, you can also push the pipe in using some type of sling and track coal or some kind of slide and push that pipe into the annular space. Now you do, you’ve got an annular space, that’s going to need to usually be grounded and filled in. Because you are going with an undersized pipe to get inside that minimal is about at least a 10%. annular space needs to be left while you’re doing the slip line.

Will Vodak

So I don’t want to spend too much on slip line, because we’ve got such a really great example here that I’d be I’d rather learn some things from Sean, some of this compression fit technology. This looks like it’s the kind of the next wave the future of trenchless technologies with with HDPE. Shawn, do you want to dive in a little deeper on this?

Shawn Boris

Yes, compressed fit lining is similar to slip lining, but it’s basically slip lining on steroids. In which case, you’re actually installing an HDPE pipe. And one neat thing is it can either be a semi structural or a fully structural solution. Semi structural would obviously be cheaper, but you’re really increasing or maximizing the cross sectional area. As you can see in the picture in the lower right hand corner, you’re essentially pulling the HDPE through either a static die, or a roller reduction box. And you’re temporarily reducing that outside diameter. And while it’s in that reduced state, you’re pulling it inside the pipe. And then after you’ve released tension, you’re pulling it in with either a winch or a bursting unit. After the tension is released, it’s going to grow back and form either a close fit or a tight fit inside that host pipe. So it’s really progressive technology. And there’s a couple of contractors that do it. And those contractors have won several awards on projects.

Will Vodak

So Shawn, this is the end result, or similar to the end result where really if the annual if you’re looking to maximize the ID, this is a permanent structure, structural of drawings and purposes of almost a brand new pipeline, correct?

Shawn Boris

Absolutely. Not only that, but since you’re installing an HDPE liner with a poet fiction of friction of 150, it’s possible to actually increase the flow capacity of the pipeline. We’ll talk about a project here in the next couple of slides. But customer actually saw about a 26% reduction in I’m sorry, a 26% increase in flow capacity and the benefits of that not just our reduced pumping costs, but also it’s going to extend the life of the pumps. And here’s that picture that project that I was referring to. This wasn’t an award winning Project that it’s a 30 inch PCCP force main. And the PCCP force main actually suffered three failures, it was 18,000 feet in length. And we actually looked at rehabilitating it both with a compressed Fit Liner and a pressure rated CIP system. That being said, it was probably more expensive to do it with the CIP system plus the benefit of HDPE. Really being that long lasting material. And again, they saw a 26% increase in flow capacity, it was completed on time on budget. And this is another once you’ve completed the installation, and you no longer have to worry about it. And here’s a great picture actually of a roller reduction box. And what the contractor did here was they actually installed pneumatic, I’m sorry, hydraulic motors onto each roller. And not only did it compress the HDPE, but it also advanced the liner. So you were pulling the liner in with a winch on the receiving pit. And then you were pushing the the liner in with this pneumatic, I’m sorry, the hydraulic power box. And that’s greatly reducing the strain on the HDPE. And not approaching necessarily the yield strength of that material. And here’s a picture of it after it’s installed immediately after installed an acid finish growing back, but it formed up close fit, and it’s been in service for past five years without issue.

Will Vodak

Don, fantastic project. Eric, do you want to touch on something there? Well, I

Garry

want to I want to, I want to point out that, you know, with this process, a lot of you know, people think well what happens if the host pipe deteriorates or goes away. This pipe, the pipe that’s chosen, the Dr. and so forth on the pipe is a standalone pipe. So if that it’s not dependent on its survivability, I guess there’s life expectancy on that host pipe. So if that deteriorates, the HDP can stand by itself and perform continually in service.

Will Vodak

So here, it is Scoville, we are back to basically saying, okay, ah, Shawn, you’ve convinced me, we’re gonna go, we’re gonna we’re going to kind of tightline compression fit this, several of our different areas and systems and hoping someday get to this stage where I can kick back, instead of looking like the question guy not knowing what to do kick back and put my feet up and say, Hey, we’re finished. Sean, do you want to put a bow on on kind of everything we’ve discussed here? And the kind of the steps that you suggest to clients that are unsure of maybe what steps they should take?

Shawn Boris

Yeah, kind of circling back around. I think, really, we need to understand what the problem is before you can address it with a correct solution. And that really follows back up on Jimmy and what he was talking about the terms of doing a proper assessment. But really, in terms of rehabilitating force mains, I think no matter what solution, you go back with an HDPE is such a strong, good material. And really, it’s maybe there’s a little bit of a comfort level or a learning curve in terms of using the HDPE pipe and having actually the the municipalities crew, get familiar with it. But really, it’s it’s an easy learning curve. There’s a lot of resources available, it’s readily available. And I think going with an HDPE solution, Mayor votec I think you’re gonna get reelected.

Will Vodak

I highly doubt that I’m going to get reelected but Thanks, Shawn, at least got somebody in my corner. Guys, I really, this has been a great conversation. We we’ve kept actually most people towards the very end here. So I want to thank the audience for spending enough time with us. Gary, bring this thing home. We work for a phenomenal company. Tell us more about what ISCO does and who we are.

Garry

Right. You know, so we’ve talked about the versatile product that ACP is and you know, there is a learning curve Shawn mentioned it but you know, getting with the right people is go folks can really help reduce that learning curve and simplify that for everybody involved. We’ve got a national footprint This is all we do. HDPE pipe you can see our locations spread around North America with the not only just pipe but fittings, equipment, you know, all the accessories all the components, the the connections, the transitions to all the different materials that might need to be had. We’ve got the solutions at this go in the expertise To help with our engineering team, our education or training, all of that that’s necessary to make sure all these jobs are go well and go successful and you choose the right solution. The gym, you know, the Jimmy and Shawn have talked about, because there’s so many options out there, when we want everybody to do well with their project.

Will Vodak

So the good news for everyone is actually you don’t need to get in touch with us. We’re gonna get in touch with you to ask a little bit more about your next projects and see what if any assistance you guys require. So be on the lookout for some contact from your local ISCO representatives. I’m also being told that we’ve got a podcast, which is so cool. I think if you just put your I don’t have Facebook or anything. So I think if you just put your phone up to the little QR code there, it’ll, it’ll pop up that I get that right there. All right. So go ahead and connect with us on Facebook and YouTube and Twitter, LinkedIn, and even Instagram, we’re posting some really cool stuff. So I hope that you will connect with us there and it’s a great way to stay in tuned. For everything that’s going on. Shawn, I want to give you an even Jimmy an opportunity to put a little plug in free for yourselves. Ken, where can people find you Sean?

Shawn Boris

I’ve merrily on LinkedIn. If you search Sean Boris on LinkedIn, that’s probably one of the best ways to get a hold of me. Or you can shoot me an email, Shawn be at Gemini pipe.com. And I wanted to thank you and everybody else for the opportunity to be here. It’s been a lot of fun.

Will Vodak

Yeah, thanks so much for being here. And Jimmy, I think you’re still over there. Where can people find you if they need to get in touch with you?

Jimmy Stewart

Well, I mean, LinkedIn obviously is an option. But I’ll speak a little slowly and give you my telephone number, which is my cell phone number, which is 334-750-3208. Or my email address, which is Jimmy at all one word, construction product. marketing.com. Jimmy,

Will Vodak

Shawn, thank you guys so much for being here. Gary, you did great as always, you know you’ve killed it. And so thank you, everyone for joining us. From ISCO Ville. We’re going to be signing off until next time, be sure to check it out. Go dash pipe.com/insights for future episodes of this go insights. Thank you very much for taking the time out of your days to join us here and we’ll see you next time on ISCO insights be safe and happy fusing.

Chelsea

Thank you so much for listening to ISCO insights, subscribe to our channel to be notified of all new episodes. You can also find us online at ISCO dash pipe.com Or on LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter, YouTube and Instagram. We’re everywhere.